pirmdiena, 2010. gada 8. marts

Women You're great!

As we all know, today in more than sixty countries across the world is international women's day. In honour to that, motion in our debate session today was This house will not observe international women's day.

In today's session there were only 4 debaters, so we had to debate only first half of debate. In position there were Dita and Reinis B but in opposition side were Kristaps and Jānis S. The main goal of this post is to develop extension making skills for debaters.
Both teams until tomorrow have to send in extension of other team. For example Kristaps and Jānis S. has to send in extension for governments case and Dita and Reinis B. has to send in extension about oppositions case. After first half of debate I gave feedback to debaters so hopefully they will fix mistakes they have made in the first half of debate.
To make this picture more clear it would be honest to readers to explain what is extension as well as tell what debaters were debating in first half of debate. Full feedback about debate will be given when there will be both extensions.

Extension
is a new point of view in debate while still roughly following the 1st Governments or the 1st Oppositions line.
In the first side of debate governments first speaker was Dita who came up with the stand that Man always has to remember his women, not only in one "special" day. Propositions first argument was
  1. We should not observe traditions which comes from Soviet Union. Dita mentioned that we still have other days to celebrate. Basically the main point of first argument of position was that USSR were bad and we have to ban everything what is associated with it.
  2. There will be equality in the world if we won't observe women's day. Dita said that there is still other days what we can celebrate i.e. St. Valentines day. She said that Men's day is not celebrated as much as women's day, so we can not give more privileges to women. She mentioned that women has mothers day in May and it is enough with it.
First speaker of opposition was Kristaps who came up with stand that there has to be equality on the world - and women's day is one of the ways to it. As rebuttal to Ditas 1st argument Kristaps mentioned that Women's day does not come from USSR and it was created earlier and USSR just adopted this idea. And even if it would be from USSR a lot of people in whole world does not associate this day with USSR. Kristaps pointed out that Men's day is only for men who served in Red Army and mothers day is only for those ladies who has children.
  1. This plan will deny emancipation of Women. Oppositions first argument was that this is one of the days when women can feel greater than men and days like these are necessary in our world where women often are discriminated i.e. lesser salaries, violence against them. In the conclusion of his speech Kristaps mentioned that women's day is symbol of emancipation.
Third speaker of this debate - Reinis B. - came up with some kind of rhetoric question which was about equality but he did not give an answer to it. He told us that tulips are mostly red and red color reminds about USSR and this is bad.
3. Disappointment. Government's third argument was that men who will forget to give tulip or something else to his women will disappoint her and we don't want it to happen, so we must ban women's day at all.

Last speaker of this half - debate was Jānis S. who came up and said that women's day is important to women and we have to observe it. He said that St. Valentines day is ignoring single ladies and mothers day is ignoring ladies without children. In his rebuttal Jānis said that women's day is important and all men should remember it.
2. Oppositions second argument was about Positive emotions what we have to give to women each year. Jānis said that both sides will get positive emotions - woman will feel important that her man remembered her, but man will feel good because he gave this tulip to his woman. In the last second of his speech Jānis mentioned that before some years when this tradition was illegal in Latvia men gave flowers and presents to their women any way, so this plan won't change anything.

This is all about this debates first half. As I mentioned before feedback about all the speakers will be given after they will send in their opponent extensions. I understand that we can not judge structure of speeches, timing, points of information, etc. but we can practice to analyze debate as well as critical thinking.

You all are free to add comments about first half of debate or suggestions about extensions.

9 komentāri:

  1. Āfrikā, Tuvajos austrumos un citās sabiedrībās vēl joprojām pastāv lielas problēmas ar izpratni par cilvēktiesībām (vienlīdzīgām sieviešu tiesībām uz darbu, izglītību un vispārēju izvēles brīvību). Tas ir fakts.
    Vai tie, kas dāvina ziedus iestājas par to, ka sievietēm pasaulē nepieciešamas vienlīdzīgas fundamentāla izvēles brīvība, vai arī tā ir rīcība no sērijas - everything they do, they do to get laid?
    Vai aicinādami apsveikti mums tuvumā esošās sievietes - sievas, meitas, mātes, kolēģes, skolotājas un daudzas citas sievietes zinām, ka ANO 2010. gada 8. martu velta sievietēm, kas cieš bruņotu konfliktu zonās, no nevienlīdzības un vardarbības.
    Ir svarīgi izšķirt svētkus no piemiņas vai atceres dienas.

    AtbildētDzēst
  2. Bet visā visumā gana aktuāla un saistoša debate! ;)

    AtbildētDzēst
  3. Nice! The blog is alive again, and running with "Flying colors". Extension will come, and I hope there will be more comments under this topic, because I won't believe you - folks, don't have anything to say bout gender equality issues.;)

    P.S. I hope such debates will encourage more of us to debate in English and develop skills, extremely necessarily in modern situation.

    AtbildētDzēst
  4. Šo komentāru ir noņēmis autors.

    AtbildētDzēst
  5. Kā man patīk šī rezolūcija! Pārdzīvojot vakardienu, man būtu daudz ko teikt šajā jautājumā.

    Ok. Ir jau mīlīgi, ka skaistākos radījumus uz zemeslodes - sievietes, sveic vienā īpašā dienā. Vēl mīlīgāk, ka attīstītā inteliģence šo dienu saista ar sieviešu cilvēktiesībām un dzimumu vienlīdzību.

    Bet mēs taču visi ļoti labi saprotam, ka pelēkajai masai nav ne jausmas, kāpēc astotais marts tiek atzīmēts. Bet pa tulpei savām sievietēm jebkurš tāpat nopirks. Kāpēc? Tāpēc, ka citi tā dara un viņš varētu ļoti nabadzīgi izskatīties uz citu vīriešu fona. Tāpēc, ka, ja viņa darba kolēģe vēl tikai stūrītī sašļuks, tad visticamāk, ka viņa draudzene vai sieva labākajā gadījumā viņam izskrāpēs acis. Tāpēc, ka atšķirībā no jebkuras citas dienas ir attaisnojums, lai ilgāk palūrētu uz nepazīstamu meiteni un vieglāk ar viņu iepazītos. Tāpēc, ka diez gan nevainīgs veids kā pielīst savai priekšniecei, skolotājai vai kolēģei. Tāpēc, ka, ja dzimšanas dienu vai trīs-mēnešu-kopā būšanas-jubileju vīriešiem ir talants aizmirst, tad astoto martu aizmirst nav tik vienkārši, bet tāpat kā pirmajās divās darbojas princips - jo-nelegālāka-dāvana-jo-lieliskāks-seks. Ja astotais marts indivīdam vēl asociējas ar kādu atsevišķu kultūru vai valsti, tad šis indivīds jau var tikt uzskatīts par inteliģentāku nekā vispārējā sabiedrība. Vismaz Latvijas noteikti. Nerunāšu par tiem, kuri pelna šādas dienas dēļ.
    Es ceru, ka man nav taisnība.

    Vai tajās valstīs, reģionos un kultūrās, kurās reāli ir problēmas ar dzimumu vienlīdzību un cilvēktiesību ievērošanu arī atzīmē sieviešu dienu? Vai arī tas, ka mēs to atzīmējam šeit var mainīt viņu ikdienu?

    Bet, manuprāt,sievietēm arī Latvijā joprojām kaut kā trūkst. Ja netrūktu viņas tā nebļautu pēc uzmanības kaut vai tikai vienu dienu gadā.

    Ja es būtu vīrietis, es astotajā martā apsveiktu savu māti. Tāpēc, ka viņa mani dzemdēja. Bet tam ir domāta mātes diena. Vai arī sievieti, kura ir daudz cietusi - sievieti, kuru sit vīrs, sievieti, kura strādā divos darbos vai tamlīdzīgi. Tāpēc, ka es ļautu viņai atcerēties, ka viņa ir sieviete. Tāpēc vien, ka kāds ir piedzimis vienā variantā no diviem, viņš nav kaut ko jau nopelnījis. Varbūt es kļūdos, bet nav taču tādas svinamās dienas, kurās mēs viens otru apsveicam, tāpēc, ka mēs esam piedzimuši ar gaišu ādas krāsu?!

    Piedodiet, ka komentārs nav angliski, bet jau latviski ir problēmas izteikties. Apzinos, ka mans viedoklis nav īpaši mīlīgs. Paldies visiem debašu kluba puišiem, ka neapsveicāt mani vakar!

    AtbildētDzēst
  6. Prieks, ka rodas diskusija :)

    Zane - sieviešu dienu atzīmē 67 valstīs, un daudzās no tām ir dzimumu līdztiesības problēmas, bet vai tas nozīmē, ka viņi nedrīkst šo dienu atzīmēt..?

    AtbildētDzēst
  7. Es nezinu, vai šajās valstīs nedrīkst atzīmēt sieviešu dienu, bet, manuprāt, tas ir diezgan slideni. Es neredzu saikni kā šī viena diena gadā spētu palīdzēt atrisināt atsevišķu valstu problēmas jautājumos par sieviešu tiesībām. Man tas atgādina tos sižetus par dzīvnieku tiesību pārkāpumiem pa TV. Zirgu gadu tur badā, bet tad, kad tiek pievērsta mediju uzmanība, tad vienu reizi pabaro ar izsmalcinātiem dzērieniem, kaviāru un gatavinātu sieru.

    AtbildētDzēst
  8. Jā, Zane, Tu kļūdies. :D
    Šai dienai pamatojumu var atrast visdažādāko un vispraktiskāko, kā to jau aprakstījuši citi, bet es vēl gribu papildināt diskusiju, apskatot jautājumu no emocionālā skata punkta, kas, iespējams, var šķist tā netverami, bet tomēr..

    Kādēļ gan uztvert 8.martu kā diskrimināciju vīriešiem? Arī viņi, ja vien vēlas, var atzīmēt vīriešu dienu..
    Kāpēc viss vienmēr ir tikai balts vai melns? "Pielīst priekšniecei vai kolēģei"..?
    Nu neesmu neko tādu dzirdējusi. Zinu organizāciju, kurā vīriešu dienā dāmas sagādāja vīriešiem "īsteni vīrišķīgus aksesuārus". Kovboju stila "Mačo cepures, siksnas, kurām sprādzi rotā ērglis, utt.. Tā asprātīgi. Savukārt vīrieši sievietēm ziedu jūru (vai ko citu, kā nu kuru reizi). Un tādā stilā jau gadu gadiem. Manuprāt, vienkārši, nekā ārkārtēja, bet tik jauki.

    Ticu, ka ir arī negatīvi piemēri, tomēr diez vai vispasaules svētki balstās uz tiem pielīšanas un to get laid gadījumiem. Diez vai.


    Ko negatīvu sniedz šādi svētki? Kuram tie kaitē? Kādēļ tikai cietušajām sievietēm būtu jāizbauda tik patīkamas emocijas vēl vienu lieku reizi saņemot uzmanības apliecinājumus un ziedus no vīrieša?

    Vairāk saules!

    AtbildētDzēst
  9. At first – great that you have raised this topic!

    I am sorry that I'm writing so late, but just now - while browsing twitter found this post. Women's day is long gone, but May 8th is close :)

    Some points:

    1. Thanks Kristaps for 100% right points: Women's day is originally from the U.S. (New York City) and was started during the industrialization [thus gender emancipation] in early 1900s, by the socialist party though.
    2. There is no such country where complete gender equality exists - the EU also has a long way to go, but this is one of the main reasons we celebrate it. The UN has a day for clean water, for children, for AIDS etc. - all of these issues are far from solved, but the main reason is to draw attention. If you read the the press releases from Women's day - almost all of them draw attention to what has been achieved and what obstacles have still to be overcome. This day is for inspiration. In the U.S. for example, March has been declared as 'Women's History Month' - drawing attention to inter-discriminatory issues, e.i., gender-race-religion-ethnicity.
    3. Since 1999 on November 19th International Men's Day is celebrated (recognized by the UN since then)
    4. On the grey masses who don't know why this day is celebrated - this is the same issue with Latvian November 11th - what is being done by our dear formal and informal education
    5. it all really comes down to positive emotions and informing society - Mother's day for me seems to foster more discrimination, because it puts an emphasis on stereotype that just mothers are [unfortunately they mainly are, even though getting paid less] and should be responsible for children growing up


    Positive emotions and informed society – this is what all the UN special days are all about!

    AtbildētDzēst